Don\u2019t Call Us Dead<\/em><\/a>.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Judith Roney for The Florida Review<\/em>: \u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\nI dove into Don\u2019t Call Us Dead <\/em>with mega-enthusiasm because when I was handed the list of poets I\u2019d be interviewing here at the Miami Book Fair because I have taught your poem \u201calternate names for black boys\u201d in the protest-poetry section of my intro to poetry class. It\u2019s a great poem to teach for so many reasons. It relies on this list of names, in the body of the poem, which are not names at all, but images, which is the point. It shows students how this poet, you, totally trusts the images to do the work, and I struggle to teach our young poets this form of trust.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nIt\u2019s hard, it\u2019s hard. You know, I was teaching a workshop the other day, and everybody was so caught up in talking content and asking, What do you think of this poem?<\/em> And talking about it as if it\u2019s a story that somebody just told, and I\u2019m like, No, where are the images, what makes you actually like the poem?<\/em> I\u2019d been writing a lot of poems about black boys, about police violence, about the many violences America throws at the black body, and I think I got to a point where I could no longer tell the story, I just had to curate the images, to let everybody else tell it to themselves.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nI like that term, \u201ccurate.\u201d I\u2019ll continue to teach the poem, and it makes it so much more exciting to teach it after meeting the poet and to talk about your concept of \u201ccurating the images.\u201d About 50 percent of my students are writing about police violence. Many of my students are in that age range of about twenty-five or younger. I\u2019m not going to ask your age\u2014<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nTwenty-eight.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nHow people view the police has changed, and so the culture changes. We all know poetry should <\/em>try to disrupt, and make changes, and nudge people from their comfort zones, and obviously you\u2019re doing that, clearly, in terms of your writing as well as your performances of slam poetry and your recordings. What do you see as hoping it\u2019s going to accomplish, and will in the future\u2014the poetry\u2014and continue to do so, and with media?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nI think poetry\u2019s goal has long been to distill something in the human (uniquely human), and the human is often beautiful, but it can be ugly and political as well. Our humanity is an ugly and gorgeous thing. I just hope that people read and that we have a diverse readership. It\u2019s just not about inspiring a next generation of poets, but also making creative poems that inspire the next generation of policy makers, that inspire the teachers, the lawmakers, the educators, the shakers, and the movers, and everybody that makes up our society. To make poems that push the world by pushing the readers, and by offering them something, that some bit of language that can better seed the word in their world, or with words that better describe it. I hope to put into language what I know I feel, and maybe to help other people find some way of being, of seeing, of moving forward.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nAnd that language is like magic.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nLanguage is magic, yeah. But this language is not high; I think I\u2019m trying better to bridge those two worlds. I want my poems to sound more like me.<\/p>\n
But there are many me\u2019s. I think poets always randomly say some high-lyrical jargon off the cuff [laughter] because we\u2019re not even trying [to connect], but poetry for me is most interesting when it encompasses all<\/em> the language that our world holds.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nThe form of your poem \u201clitany with blood all over\u201d fascinates me. This to me is so powerful: \u201cmy blood, his blood, my blood, his blood, over and over\u201d because it works as such a visual object as well. When you say that you\u2019re not just reaching out to young poets, or young students, but across ages that\u2019s great but difficult. I\u2019m fifty-six and grew up in Chicago, but I have a totally different mindset than a lot of other people from where I live now. If I showed my neighbor, for example, a poem, it would mean nothing to him. I struggle to reach those people. Tell me what went through your mind, when working on this, it seems so<\/em> full of emotion.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nI think there\u2019s a certain point where a poem decides it wants to break out of some type of a traditional way of being on the page\u2014I became aware of this studying poets like Duriel E. Harris, like Evie Shockley, like Douglas Kearney\u2014and with this poem I reached a point where I had said everything I could say, and what actually needed to come out was something more visual and less legible, but full of emotion.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nThere\u2019s also a powerful rhythm to read this\u2014\u201cmy blood, his blood\u201d from the poem we spoke of earlier, \u201clitany with blood all over\u201d\u2014repeatedly, over and over with its powerful visual overlapping like a spell\u2014I don\u2019t know what else to call it. I suppose you could<\/em> find a powerful way in a straight-form line, but to me this is so powerful that you did it like this.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nIt had to be like that\u2014<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nIt had<\/em> to be it like that?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nYes\u2014the poem wants to start breaking out of the traditional strategy for lineation. Even other poems are kind of wonky, where, you know, poets get rather tab-happy, with the tab button on their computer and sort of start pushing lines to the other side of the page for no reason [laughter]. That\u2019s the kind of stuff I start playing with\u2014<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nTab-happy?!<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nI don\u2019t know what that\u2019s called, so I just call it \u201ctab-happy.\u201d<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
I\u2019m just like, okay, you wrote a poem and you decided want it to be all over the place<\/em>, and that\u2019s fine. I love those poems, I write those poems all the time.<\/p>\nTab-happy sounds so fun\u2014but I think even when the poem is hard\u2014\u201clitany with blood all over\u201d is a very serious and sad poem\u2014but still there has to be an element of play within the writing process, I believe, even when you\u2019re writing about possibly traumatic, or serious, sad, melancholy, depressive, what-have-you topics.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
In that moment of trying to figure out how to make this my <\/em>blood, his <\/em>blood, this overlapping of language and blood, I think I found a way to lift above <\/em>language and it actually just becomes the blood on the page. Here\u2019s a moment of play. I remember becoming very excited trying to figure out how I was going to do this. I started writing \u201cmy blood my blood his blood his blood\u201d and thinking I wanted this to crash together\u2014How do I merge these things?<\/em> That part just becomes fun, you start getting into Microsoft Word or InDesign and just have fun.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nWhen did you know you were going to be a poet, when did you feel you were a poet, and when did you feel\u2014besides just expressing yourself ordinarily as a young man and a person\u2014when did you say, This is what I want to do<\/em>? What did you first read that made you excited? Or hear? Music?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nI wasn\u2019t reading. I definitely came into poetry as an auditory tradition, oratory tradition, oral tradition. I came into poetry first, at least was first excited by it, through the oral tradition. A lot of my teachers were teaching Frost and Dickinson, and blah blah blah\u2014well, not blah blah blah, but at the time it felt like blah blah blah\u2014and Langston Hughes was only taught if it was February. It was spoken word, it was sort of the like Def poetry movement that happened in the early 2000s that caught me up.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nGot you\u2014<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nYes, because at first I didn\u2019t know poets were alive.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
[laughter]<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
All the poets they showed us in school were dead! And so I thought poetry died with the poets\u2014I didn\u2019t know there were still living, breathing, poets. I\u2019m glad to see there\u2019s been a greater shift in the last ten-fifteen years to push living poets into the classroom, and the high school and college classrooms, and thank God for it, because for so long, I don\u2019t know what<\/em> people were thinking in the \u201990s and early 2000s. It felt like nobody was actually interested in bringing in anything actually contemporary to students, and what I needed was a voice a little bit closer in, well not in age, but in \u201cmoment\u201d to me. I heard that other poets were talking about things I cared about, not just things that happened in the past, but things that still are<\/em> relevant, that still have echoes, that still have resonance today, where they were talking about today<\/em>. That felt important. So, you know, I first found a little poetry then. I was always going to write poetry\u2014I didn\u2019t know it was a career option\u2014and in college I was part of a hip hop and spoken word arts program called First Wave at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
I was curious\u2014we\u2019d have these poets come through and teach us workshops and perform, and I didn\u2019t know how they did this. How do you pay rent and call yourself a poet? Do you have a day job? Some had a day job, some did not, and I think for me it was never a question of whether I was going to write poetry but was more a question of income, which is a very real thing for artists.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
I\u2019ve been a poet since I started being a poet at fourteen, but at a certain point I was making enough to be a poet full time.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nIn one interview in 2015, you mentioned that were obsessed with intersectionality. I like hearing about what other poets\u2019 muses are, their haunts, their obsessions. Is this still an obsession?<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nOkay, I don\u2019t know if I\u2019d say I\u2019m obsessed with intersectionality, I think intersectionality is in everything, intersectionality being a foundational black feminist thought that you are never just <\/em>the one thing\u2014<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
With my first book, I was definitely obsessed with that. What happened with [insert] boy<\/em>, part of my life process with trying to build that book was trying to parse out my identity to have a section that was supposedly about blackness, to have a section about queerness, or my life as a sex worker, about my family. The fun part about that was that even as I was trying to suss these topics out, they were still bleeding into each other, still speaking to each other. I couldn\u2019t talk about just being black. I had to talk about also being queer within that, and all these other identities I hold\u2014<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
They\u2019re all layered over each other. I think then I was kind of obsessed with the concept<\/em> of intersectionality, but not so much anymore. I think now in my work intersectionality is now just a fact<\/em>. I think it was something I was playing around with in my first book, and now it\u2019s our lives, we are, all of us, we each are our many selves.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nAs an identification, as a persona, when you\u2019re writing, does it keep changing from poem to poem? You\u2019ve moved on, so what questions do you find yourself asking questions in the newer poems?<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nI think every poem is a pursuit, is a failed pursuit of an answer, but just a poem getting a little bit closer to it. I wrote [insert] boy<\/em>, and I spent time with those<\/em> questions, and I wrote Don\u2019t Call Us Dead<\/em>, and spent time with those <\/em>questions, and now I\u2019m writing new things and working toward my third book, and so I have questions there that I\u2019m trying to pursue too.<\/p>\nTFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nIt\u2019s great to have a book like Don\u2019t Call Us Dead<\/em> for my advanced poetry class, for studying form\u2014students need to see these new forms, they need to have their eyes opened. I make it a point to use few, maybe one or two dead poets.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nWell, now I love Frost and Dickinson, all those folks. I love William Blake, [laughter] and Keats, and stuff like that\u2014<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nCrazy guys!<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nRight, crazy guys! I find something of value in that\u2014but it took falling in love with contemporary poetry for me to be able to reach back, and where we understand something historical of note.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nOkay, then I want to ask a last question, did it take something to unlock the door, and there you went, and you kind of exploded from there?<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nI didn\u2019t love poetry for a while, and then a professor of mine in college asked me, \u201cAre your poems only going to be good when you\u2019re around to read them [aloud]?\u201d And then that\u2019s what really changed my life and sent me to the page. Then I discovered another whole other realm of possibility of how to be a poet, and I was already in love with the concept of poetry, and it was nice to discover it also be lived in a vibrant way on the page, too, because I think that\u2019s the thing\u2014when I found spoken word I did not also find the contemporary written word. That came later. I knew folks were speaking poetry into the world, but I didn\u2019t know folks were still publishing books!<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
TFR:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nOften people who like spoken word or slam poetry don\u2019t think about looking<\/em> at it\u2014on the page or in a book. They think this is too quiet, or \u201cI\u2019m not going to get<\/em> it.\u201d<\/p>\n <\/p>\n
Smith:<\/strong><\/p>\nNo, no, books are loud, books are loud, books are forceful.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Our humanity is a gorgeous and ugly thing.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"featured_media":2999,"template":"","categories":[9,140],"tags":[776,6,771,777,351,778,717,718],"class_list":["post-2996","article","type-article","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-aquifer","category-interview","tag-insert-boy","tag-aquifer-the-florida-review-online","tag-danez-smith","tag-def-poetry","tag-judith-roney","tag-please-dont-call-us-dead","tag-slam-poetry","tag-spoken-word-poetry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\n
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<\/p>\n