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Yrsa Daley-Ward was born to immigrant parents (Jamaican and Nigerian) in England, then lived in South Africa for several years as she pursued a career in modeling. It was in South Africa that she encountered the slam and spoken-word poetry community and began writing. She has now published three books\u2014a collection of short stories, On Snakes and Other Stories<\/em> (2013); a collection of poems, Bone<\/em> (2014; 2017); and, most recently a memoir, The Terrible<\/em> (2018). Daley-Ward considers herself an activist for feminist, LGBTQ+, and mental health issues, but expressed the hope that her writing is for everyone.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n Lisa Roney for The Florida Review<\/em>:<\/strong><\/p>\n It\u2019s rare to find a fashion model who becomes a poet. I read that you had come across a slam poetry event, a spoken-word poetry event when you lived in South Africa. I thought that was a wonderful story. Did that inspire your frankness? It\u2019s interesting to think about you as this very independent person who speaks about the fashion industry in this very honest way and yet still participates in the fashion industry. I just wonder how you combine these two worlds. Is it the sort of situation where you feel a little estranged from the fashion world? Do you have good friends that are thrilled that you are also writing? How do you combine these two cultures\u2014one of which seems to be based on a certain kind of objectification of women, and yet your poetry is very strong and powerful and feminist and anti-objectification? How do you combine them?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Yrsa Daley-Ward:<\/strong><\/p>\n I think it\u2019s really important to remember\u2014and that\u2019s, I think, the beauty of doing lots of things that are seemingly contradictory\u2014that we\u2019re all multi-faceted human beings. There are models who write. There are people who are seen controversial and wild to our brilliant parents. There are teachers who are engaged in nefarious activities. We\u2019re all like a composite of so many things, and to be in your fullness is really important. I think too much we\u2019re defined by what we do [for a living] or what we look like, even like the gender binary, being super feminine or masculine, so to speak. I love to embrace all aspects of myself. I think that\u2019s super important.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I think a lot about the spotlight and how the spotlight is different for a model versus an author. Could you comment about how the spotlight is different?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n It is, and it really shouldn\u2019t be, but it is! It\u2019s sort of this weird Venn diagram that\u2019s happening. I enjoy both because in both there\u2019s an aspect of you<\/em> and performance and rawness. As much as people don\u2019t appreciate it, modeling is an art form like writing. I do think it is.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I\u2019m sure it is.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n I\u2019m just thinking about the spotlight. I think a lot of that performative act. Do you think it\u2019s easier for you to perform as a writer because you have the modelling career?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n No.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n It\u2019s a different kind of performance.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n It\u2019s completely different.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n That\u2019s what I was fascinated about. For some reason, I think it had to do with seeing those photographs of you, especially the ones that were with the Guardian<\/em> article and they were extremely beautiful, but they were also severe and remote, distant. I felt a great deal of distance from you, so I was like, \u201cI wonder what it\u2019s like to be photographed in that context.\u201d I\u2019m sure you are performing that for the camera, yet there is something else that comes across in these poems that\u2019s so powerful and human and down to earth. You had described that first spoken-word event where you read your poem and people applauded for you and loved it\u2014you felt that close human connection. I was just interested in how those two things are different or similar if they tap into each other at all.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n First of all, that article was really odd because what I said was taken out of context in nearly every line, and I completely didn\u2019t recognize myself in that or in the photos. If you look at any other photo, even in modelling, I just don\u2019t look like that. It was strange. I think most photos capture my essence as it is, but I do think there\u2019s a different spotlight. In modelling, I guess you\u2019d be prepared for what\u2019s happening, whereas you roll up to a writing event and then, all of a sudden, people are taking photographs and it\u2019s just you. But both of them are just different aspects of the same thing. I love balance; I love being able to do the switch between the two. I write every day. I actually do a lot more writing than modelling at the moment, but I really enjoy both elements. I think they can bleed into each other. I think you can show humanity and softness, maybe not in the Guardian<\/em> article [laughter], but humanity and softness in modelling in the same way.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I am fascinated by how you developed such a strong sense of self coming out of the religious background that you describe in some of the poems, and in other interviews as well. It\u2019s a very strict, very severe kind of upbringing that you\u2019ve described. I guess the stereotype, especially of women, who come out of that kind of background is that they are very self-sacrificing and they\u2019re very self-abnegating. They don\u2019t have a lot of confidence, and yet you do. You exude strength. Where did that spark start for you that, \u201cI\u2019m me and I\u2019m these complicated things and I\u2019m going to be powerful\u201d?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I was lucky enough to have been introduced to literature and language at a really young age by a mom who was a single parent, a Jamaican immigrant, so the need for education and everything like that was impressed on me from an early age. So, I got this gift of opening books and learning about deep and complicated subjects and people who didn\u2019t always say what they meant, people who were doing all kinds of things. I read everything when I was young. I read the Bible, I read the Kama Sutra, both of them very intently. There\u2019s always been dichotomy and contradictions, but I think that allowed me to feel rich. And conflicted\u2014yes\u2014but conflict is very human, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n The gift of religion helps you understand people because you go to church or wherever it is that you worship, and you see the way people struggle with religion and what they say versus what they do and everybody trying to chase this ideal. Of course, religion has its very difficult aspects, but it\u2019s also really beautiful. Learning to appreciate and see the joy in a lot of different things is something that such a strict religion did for me because as much as I was nervous and I felt like I was not going to heaven, I also loved the ceremony of it and the fellowship of it as well. There are lots of different parts to it.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n How would you describe your own religious belief? I felt like Bone<\/em> in a way moves back in time. I was really touched by getting to the poems in the latter part of the book where they seem to be very kind to your grandparents and your mother. I had formed this question early on which was like, What is your relationship with your grandparents now? What is your relationship with that?<\/em> You\u2019ve talked about it already a little bit, about the community that you found in the church and the beauty of the ritual and such. Maybe that\u2019s a very personal question, but I\u2019m really interested in that same issue that you brought up, which is about watching people in various religious traditions struggle with what they mean in their own lives. We have a lot of that going on in the U.S. public life right now.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Oh, goodness! Yes, so much.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n If it\u2019s not too personal a question, how do you relate to the religious world that you came from?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I\u2019m not a Seventh-day Adventist, which is the religion I was brought up in. It\u2019s ever-changing. I\u2019m attempting to fathom what that is. What do I believe still? There were a lot of things that were heavily ingrained, and they never really worked themselves out. Even though I live this life that is apparently the opposite of all of that, there are things in me that aren\u2019t going to come out. I do catch myself on any given day wondering what the truth is. Of course, nobody knows for sure. We live on faith. Especially, Christians live on faith. I am constantly grappling with how I feel about religion and the idea of God versus my idea of the universe. I am spiritual, but religious, no.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I think that\u2019s really what I sensed in this book, and it comes across really well. Your poem \u201cPoetry,\u201d from Bone<\/em>, but which you read in an online video, reminded me a lot of Tess Gallagher\u2019s short essay, \u201cOde to My Father.\u201d Do you know that essay?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n No, but I\u2019m going to read it.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I brought it to you.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Oh, my God! Thank you!<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n She has this wonderful line. She says, \u201cIf terror and fear are necessary to the psychic stamina of a poet, I had them in steady doses just as inevitably as I had the rain.\u201d This is an essay and poem about her parents arguing and her father beating her and how she gradually came to forgive him. When I read your poem \u201cPoetry,\u201d I was very much reminded of that.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I see the link.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I wanted to ask what you see as the connection between difficulties in life and poetry.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n There is nothing that you can\u2019t work up into art. Whether it\u2019s poetry or whether you\u2019re painting or making a piece of theater or anything, what happens to you is going to strengthen what you are doing. The thing I think is so beautiful about poetry is how we can succinctly reach into our hearts and the hearts of other people because we are all having the same experiences on this planet. These experiences transcend, for the most part, class, race, gender, all those things. I think it\u2019s important to have those moments and\u2014I wouldn\u2019t say to document them or identify with them\u2014but definitely reach out. If a poem can make somebody feel somewhat less isolated or that there is somebody else who understands what they are feeling or just put a voice to how they\u2019re feeling, then the poem\u2019s done its job or the piece of art has done its job. Of course, difficulty is gold.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n It\u2019s such an interesting thing about writing. It\u2019s kind of a joke that we tend to say. Something terrible happens to you, and you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, well, it\u2019s material.\u201d<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Yeah!<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I think it\u2019s an odd juxtaposition for writers where sometimes they end up seeking it out.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Yeah\u2014that\u2019s dangerous!<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Being destructive in their own lives in order to have material. Sometimes that works out and sometimes it doesn\u2019t work out.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I guess too much of that could block you. Those difficulties are going to come up. You don\u2019t need to make<\/em> them happen. They\u2019re part of life.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Why do you think it\u2019s so important for poetry to reach beyond the \u201celite,\u201d to reach ordinary people, and what do you think that poetry can do to help ordinary people?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n We\u2019re all ordinary. We all have feelings. Literature is for everyone, not a select group of people. That\u2019s ludicrous! What can it do for ordinary people? It gives them voice, it helps people feel less alone, it brings us together and we all desperately need to be brought together because we\u2019re so divided. We\u2019re all connected in this world. It feels crazy to me. Poetry acts as a bridge. It brings us closer together, it helps us not feel so alone, it gives an outlook to something that\u2019s inside. If I was not writing, God knows what mental state I would be in.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Your poems are very, very, very personal, but they also feel to me that they have a social, political edge to them. They have implications beyond the self. I think for writers in particular, the current social state that we\u2019re living through in this world can feel increasingly hostile. How we might work, all of us, writers, to bring people to poetry and to literature where I feel that there is this more complex understanding of other human beings?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I think there are so many things. This is actually so exciting because this is starting to happen online\u2014and I know people have a lot of mixed feelings about this\u2014but even the poetry, almost a whole canon already, that has appeared on Instagram has made lots of young people, people who would never pick up a poetry book for fear that it might be boring, which a lot of poetry is . . .<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Sometimes it is!<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Things like that\u2014poetry in dance, in films, poetry with music, going to prisons, teaching it in schools. Impromptu poetry performances on the street would bring so many people to it because they realize, \u201cOh, it\u2019s not this closed shop. It\u2019s just people talking about their feelings.\u201d If more people knew that and didn\u2019t think that it was this thing that is closed. Honestly, there is just so much poetry that I don\u2019t understand. I know it\u2019s so clever, but I don\u2019t think I\u2019m a strong enough reader of poetry yet. I buy poetry books by the bucket-load, but I\u2019m still learning how to read it and how to access that super academic poetry. I love everything, but it\u2019s important for that not to be the only thing.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I agree. That\u2019s one reason why I was so drawn to your book.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Yes.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Partly, it was that contrast with some of other poets. Just the contrast is a wonderful thing. We can have both of these things. We can have the world where someone is paying attention to every single syllable and creating some kind of sonnet or some kind of formal poem and yet, we can also have poetry that\u2019s raw and down to earth.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n I\u2019m also really looking forward to your memoir [The Terrible<\/em>]. I love that you said, \u201cIt will tell everything.\u201d<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n It pretty much does.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n What do you think is the relationship between truth-telling as an important kind of upstanding thing to do and rebellion for shock\u2019s sake? What\u2019s the relationship between those two things? How do you think about truth-telling?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I think it\u2019s a powerful tool in a world where there is not a lot of it, unfortunately. I never intended to write a memoir or tell anybody anything about myself, ever, but it\u2019s just the way in which this has come to me. There were doses of fear that come along with that. When I started to examine what the reason for this was, the most important thing that came out of nowhere\u2014and which gives me a reason to be here and sit down and be able to do all this, without turning me into a nervous wreck\u2014is just the fact that I think to be here is to be in service to the world, in service for people for whom these experiences are completely normal. When I speak about marginalized communities, it\u2019s not only people of color, queer people, sex workers, people who\u2019ve been involved in what we call criminal activity. I\u2019m a deeply private person, but something about making this kind of work is stronger. I was talking to my friend today on the phone and we were just talking. I get some lines sometimes when I\u2019m just chatting and I said to her, \u201cMy destiny is louder than my comfort.\u201d I was like, \u201cOh! I\u2019m going to Tweet that!\u201d It really is at this point. It\u2019s become more important to do that.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n It\u2019s gone beyond yourself and your expression. You feel a responsibility to other people.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I do! Otherwise, how are we going to do this? Our sex workers are going to think that they can\u2019t write the next bestseller. Children of color who live on council estates or in the hoods are going to think they can\u2019t write a Pulitzer prize.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Especially now, because we do seem to be in a time of shrinking opportunity where the rich get richer and everybody else is left behind. It\u2019s scary sometimes, especially in terms of education. I understand that completely, that sense of responsibility for bringing that forward.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n Could you comment on Instagram and other social media as a method of artistic expression? Do you see social media as the future of poetry and other literary forms? What are the limitations of that?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Not completely the future, because where there is progress and wonderful work on Instagram, one of the issues with things happening on mass media is that, sometimes, it might lose its power. That\u2019s a small price to pay because it\u2019s making literature current. Literature has always been current, but now to reach everybody, because almost everyone has a smartphone. As much as people who have an attitude about this won\u2019t like this, I think it\u2019s wonderful because if you were never interested in poetry, now, these days, people will be engaging with poetry whether they know it or not, which I think is wonderful, especially for young people, the next generation.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n What\u2019s next for you?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Every day I ask myself that. It\u2019s The Terrible<\/em> next. I just finished my final edit of that which has been a really interesting process. I\u2019ve just relocated to New York. I love to meet people and I love to read poetry, and I hope to do so much more of it live. Sometimes I do it with musicians. Just to be doing what I love and to create more work constantly. I hold myself accountable in that way\u2014actually getting stuff done. So, writing and really documenting this time because it feels really special. It\u2019s very important to me.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Any last words of wisdom?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I don\u2019t know that I\u2019m wise.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n TFR<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n Or last words of spirit?<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Daley-Ward<\/em><\/strong>:<\/strong><\/p>\n I would say that in this world, it\u2019s more important than ever before for people to feel empowered to tell their stories because their stories are very valid, and if you are worried whether it\u2019s strong enough or good enough or whether it\u2019s compelling enough, always know that the thing that is the most raw and honest will be compelling to other people because we are all connected. If you have a story that you want to write, tell your story. We really do want to hear it.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" It’s rare to find a fashion model who becomes a poet.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"featured_media":2915,"template":"","categories":[9,140],"tags":[6,714,715,716,717,718,719,720,721,722],"class_list":["post-2911","article","type-article","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-aquifer","category-interview","tag-aquifer-the-florida-review-online","tag-bone","tag-modelling","tag-on-snakes-and-other-stories","tag-slam-poetry","tag-spoken-word-poetry","tag-tess-gallagher","tag-the-terrible","tag-twitter-poetry","tag-yrsa-daley-ward"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\n